Dual Tournament?
Quote from Sasquatch on February 5, 2025, 3:12 pmCould someone explain the head at the state's dual tournament this year
I heard some coaches saying it might have changed where the head to head counts toward seeding.
But they also added that this will ruin the tournament and there will be a lot of dodging vs getting the good duals.
Did this change? Thoughts?
Could someone explain the head at the state's dual tournament this year
I heard some coaches saying it might have changed where the head to head counts toward seeding.
But they also added that this will ruin the tournament and there will be a lot of dodging vs getting the good duals.
Did this change? Thoughts?
Quote from chalk on February 6, 2025, 9:17 amIt sounds like you are correct. Apparently it was changed back to counting for seeding at state individual from the state duals for 2025. It did NOT count last year. Really unfortunate IMO and likely hurts the the dual tournament. Coaches and kids now now have more on their plate besides just wrestling free, can we win this dual if we wrestle here, what is my current criteria with this kid, are they in my region, do we care what we place today if we don't have a shot to win it, etc. Coaches were notified early in the year, but it was not put in the information here https://www.sdhsaa.com/Athletics/WR-TournamentInfoDualA.pdf, although I don't think it was added last year when it did not count. I think information like this should be in handbook.
It sounds like you are correct. Apparently it was changed back to counting for seeding at state individual from the state duals for 2025. It did NOT count last year. Really unfortunate IMO and likely hurts the the dual tournament. Coaches and kids now now have more on their plate besides just wrestling free, can we win this dual if we wrestle here, what is my current criteria with this kid, are they in my region, do we care what we place today if we don't have a shot to win it, etc. Coaches were notified early in the year, but it was not put in the information here https://www.sdhsaa.com/Athletics/WR-TournamentInfoDualA.pdf, although I don't think it was added last year when it did not count. I think information like this should be in handbook.
Quote from interesting on February 10, 2025, 6:30 pmMagically there are 10 schools in the duals now???
Magically there are 10 schools in the duals now???
Quote from chargergrad on February 11, 2025, 8:47 amLooks like they really want to water down the Dual tournament..
Looks like they really want to water down the Dual tournament..
Quote from chalk on February 11, 2025, 9:16 amInteresting precedent for an extra state tournament that is teetering on it's future. Whether this is the right date, if matches should count for state individual seeding so teams don't duck, etc. If something needs to change this should go to the advisory group, with coaches input from the state meeting to make changes to the rules of the duals annually. Some teams could get up to 4 duals Friday or Saturday now or just one and drive home with added expense of hotels and/or getting up early to drive and weigh in on site. Hopefully the weather cooperates.
Interesting precedent for an extra state tournament that is teetering on it's future. Whether this is the right date, if matches should count for state individual seeding so teams don't duck, etc. If something needs to change this should go to the advisory group, with coaches input from the state meeting to make changes to the rules of the duals annually. Some teams could get up to 4 duals Friday or Saturday now or just one and drive home with added expense of hotels and/or getting up early to drive and weigh in on site. Hopefully the weather cooperates.
Quote from Major on February 11, 2025, 9:56 amQuote from interesting on February 10, 2025, 6:30 pmMagically there are 10 schools in the duals now???
It will be interesting to see if the school(s) that complained about the power points wrestle backups/duck this weekend. Hopefully only the Top 8 will be included only in following years.
Quote from interesting on February 10, 2025, 6:30 pmMagically there are 10 schools in the duals now???
It will be interesting to see if the school(s) that complained about the power points wrestle backups/duck this weekend. Hopefully only the Top 8 will be included only in following years.
Quote from interesting on February 11, 2025, 12:40 pmI think that is going to happen more than ever (wrestlers sitting out or being sat out - and there are legit reasons especially the way its playing out), there is literally no incentive (especially this year) for anyone other than Aberdeen Central and Sturgis to risk getting some of their best wrestlers hurt two weeks before the thing they work their entire wrestling career for. No offense, I don't think you are going to find many kids who say their ultimate goal is to win a dual team state title.
Also....I am not sure most other teams have a legit path to win the title. No offense to those other teams, but those top two are salty up and down the lineup, where the rest of the teams have have as many as 6-8 studs, but not 11-14, the math doesn't really math, the separation is too great this year especially, and that is what it is. Murphy's law....
Stranger things have happened, and yes upsets also happen, but there is not the interest level they need from the kids and it is really not fun or exciting. The risk vs reward is incredibly low at this time of year for most kids and teams. I still think it is largely about timing, getting it out of the other tournament was a good start. Just spitballing, but maybe make it a Christmas State Dual tournament, put in top 12 teams, and fight to the end. Or put it after Individual State, and make it top 4 from A vs top 4 from B individual state for the who's number 1.
Generate the interest and buzz and excitement, and kids will care, because the size of the reward will be relative to the excitement of the event, not because we "hope" that they will care, because we want them to. Hope is not a strategy.
I think that is going to happen more than ever (wrestlers sitting out or being sat out - and there are legit reasons especially the way its playing out), there is literally no incentive (especially this year) for anyone other than Aberdeen Central and Sturgis to risk getting some of their best wrestlers hurt two weeks before the thing they work their entire wrestling career for. No offense, I don't think you are going to find many kids who say their ultimate goal is to win a dual team state title.
Also....I am not sure most other teams have a legit path to win the title. No offense to those other teams, but those top two are salty up and down the lineup, where the rest of the teams have have as many as 6-8 studs, but not 11-14, the math doesn't really math, the separation is too great this year especially, and that is what it is. Murphy's law....
Stranger things have happened, and yes upsets also happen, but there is not the interest level they need from the kids and it is really not fun or exciting. The risk vs reward is incredibly low at this time of year for most kids and teams. I still think it is largely about timing, getting it out of the other tournament was a good start. Just spitballing, but maybe make it a Christmas State Dual tournament, put in top 12 teams, and fight to the end. Or put it after Individual State, and make it top 4 from A vs top 4 from B individual state for the who's number 1.
Generate the interest and buzz and excitement, and kids will care, because the size of the reward will be relative to the excitement of the event, not because we "hope" that they will care, because we want them to. Hope is not a strategy.
Quote from TopRowRuffRider on February 11, 2025, 1:59 pmQuote from Major on February 11, 2025, 9:56 amHopefully only the Top 8 will be included only in following years.
It will depend if Pierre is in the top 8 or not. Every year there are teams with claims to a top 8 seed but are sitting 9 or 10, and they are told to pound sand. Now this year when Pierre is on the outside looking in, everything magically changes!
Quote from Major on February 11, 2025, 9:56 amHopefully only the Top 8 will be included only in following years.
It will depend if Pierre is in the top 8 or not. Every year there are teams with claims to a top 8 seed but are sitting 9 or 10, and they are told to pound sand. Now this year when Pierre is on the outside looking in, everything magically changes!
Quote from Takedown247365 on February 11, 2025, 2:25 pmQuote from TopRowRuffRider on February 11, 2025, 1:59 pmQuote from Major on February 11, 2025, 9:56 amHopefully only the Top 8 will be included only in following years.
It will depend if Pierre is in the top 8 or not. Every year there are teams with claims to a top 8 seed but are sitting 9 or 10, and they are told to pound sand. Now this year when Pierre is on the outside looking in, everything magically changes!
This is exactly what happened to Harrisburg last year (should have been in the top 8 based on head-to-head, etc.----sitting at 9 based on points). But due to only having 8 spots, they were told to pound sand.
This is not what was listed on the tournament information flyer on the website (which clearly says updated 2024-2025). What am I missing that changed literally overnight?
Quote from TopRowRuffRider on February 11, 2025, 1:59 pmQuote from Major on February 11, 2025, 9:56 amHopefully only the Top 8 will be included only in following years.
It will depend if Pierre is in the top 8 or not. Every year there are teams with claims to a top 8 seed but are sitting 9 or 10, and they are told to pound sand. Now this year when Pierre is on the outside looking in, everything magically changes!
This is exactly what happened to Harrisburg last year (should have been in the top 8 based on head-to-head, etc.----sitting at 9 based on points). But due to only having 8 spots, they were told to pound sand.
This is not what was listed on the tournament information flyer on the website (which clearly says updated 2024-2025). What am I missing that changed literally overnight?
Quote from Skip on February 11, 2025, 3:59 pmLooks like they changed their mind and went back to 8 teams
Looks like they changed their mind and went back to 8 teams
Quote from chargergrad on February 11, 2025, 5:10 pmWell I believe Brandon is a much better than the 6th seed.. crazy how some teams can dual a B school schedule and get a better seed when it’s not deserved. Brandon’l wrestles in the toughest conference in the state. That should be figured into the criteria
Well I believe Brandon is a much better than the 6th seed.. crazy how some teams can dual a B school schedule and get a better seed when it’s not deserved. Brandon’l wrestles in the toughest conference in the state. That should be figured into the criteria
Quote from TopRowRuffRider on February 11, 2025, 5:37 pmQuote from chargergrad on February 11, 2025, 5:10 pmWell I believe Brandon is a much better than the 6th seed.. crazy how some teams can dual a B school schedule and get a better seed when it’s not deserved. Brandon’l wrestles in the toughest conference in the state. That should be figured into the criteria
I think Brandon got the sweetheart seed. They wrestle a beat up Watertown minus Gage and maybe minus Richter. After that, while Aberdeen is a great team, they are more beatable than Sturgis. I think either West Central or Stevens would trade Brandon Valley seeds if given the chance.
Quote from chargergrad on February 11, 2025, 5:10 pmWell I believe Brandon is a much better than the 6th seed.. crazy how some teams can dual a B school schedule and get a better seed when it’s not deserved. Brandon’l wrestles in the toughest conference in the state. That should be figured into the criteria
I think Brandon got the sweetheart seed. They wrestle a beat up Watertown minus Gage and maybe minus Richter. After that, while Aberdeen is a great team, they are more beatable than Sturgis. I think either West Central or Stevens would trade Brandon Valley seeds if given the chance.
Quote from badman33 on February 11, 2025, 5:58 pmSince everyone does nothing but complain about the Duals Tournament, it should just be put back on the shelf, again. 10 teams all of a sudden then back to 8 after there were complaints. Matches count toward seeding, didn’t last year. It’s a joke.
Since everyone does nothing but complain about the Duals Tournament, it should just be put back on the shelf, again. 10 teams all of a sudden then back to 8 after there were complaints. Matches count toward seeding, didn’t last year. It’s a joke.
Quote from interesting on February 11, 2025, 7:44 pmQuote from TopRowRuffRider on February 11, 2025, 5:37 pmI think Brandon got the sweetheart seed. They wrestle a beat up Watertown minus Gage and maybe minus Richter. After that, while Aberdeen is a great team, they are more beatable than Sturgis. I think either West Central or Stevens would trade Brandon Valley seeds if given the chance.
Don’t worry no matter the seeds, your kid will also get his participation medal.
Quote from TopRowRuffRider on February 11, 2025, 5:37 pm
I think Brandon got the sweetheart seed. They wrestle a beat up Watertown minus Gage and maybe minus Richter. After that, while Aberdeen is a great team, they are more beatable than Sturgis. I think either West Central or Stevens would trade Brandon Valley seeds if given the chance.
Don’t worry no matter the seeds, your kid will also get his participation medal.
Quote from Sasquatch on February 11, 2025, 10:49 pmQuote from chargergrad on February 11, 2025, 5:10 pmWell I believe Brandon is a much better than the 6th seed.. crazy how some teams can dual a B school schedule and get a better seed when it’s not deserved. Brandon’l wrestles in the toughest conference in the state. That should be figured into the criteria
If you read the rules, it doesn't matter if it's an A or B team, it depends on their record. There's a lot of B teams that are better than a lot of A teams.
Brandon lost 4 duals, you would have been happier with 5th seed?
Quote from chargergrad on February 11, 2025, 5:10 pmWell I believe Brandon is a much better than the 6th seed.. crazy how some teams can dual a B school schedule and get a better seed when it’s not deserved. Brandon’l wrestles in the toughest conference in the state. That should be figured into the criteria
If you read the rules, it doesn't matter if it's an A or B team, it depends on their record. There's a lot of B teams that are better than a lot of A teams.
Brandon lost 4 duals, you would have been happier with 5th seed?
Quote from interesting on February 12, 2025, 3:34 amQuote from Sasquatch on February 11, 2025, 10:49 pmQuote from chargergrad on February 11, 2025, 5:10 pmWell I believe Brandon is a much better than the 6th seed.. crazy how some teams can dual a B school schedule and get a better seed when it’s not deserved. Brandon’l wrestles in the toughest conference in the state. That should be figured into the criteria
If you read the rules, it doesn't matter if it's an A or B team, it depends on their record. There's a lot of B teams that are better than a lot of A teams.
Brandon lost 4 duals, you would have been happier with 5th seed?
It’s actually dependent on win percentage not record.
Oh and it still doesn’t matter…..
Quote from Sasquatch on February 11, 2025, 10:49 pmQuote from chargergrad on February 11, 2025, 5:10 pmWell I believe Brandon is a much better than the 6th seed.. crazy how some teams can dual a B school schedule and get a better seed when it’s not deserved. Brandon’l wrestles in the toughest conference in the state. That should be figured into the criteria
If you read the rules, it doesn't matter if it's an A or B team, it depends on their record. There's a lot of B teams that are better than a lot of A teams.
Brandon lost 4 duals, you would have been happier with 5th seed?
It’s actually dependent on win percentage not record.
Oh and it still doesn’t matter…..
Quote from interesting on February 12, 2025, 3:35 amQuote from TopRowRuffRider on February 11, 2025, 5:37 pmQuote from chargergrad on February 11, 2025, 5:10 pmWell I believe Brandon is a much better than the 6th seed.. crazy how some teams can dual a B school schedule and get a better seed when it’s not deserved. Brandon’l wrestles in the toughest conference in the state. That should be figured into the criteria
I think Brandon got the sweetheart seed. They wrestle a beat up Watertown minus Gage and maybe minus Richter. After that, while Aberdeen is a great team, they are more beatable than Sturgis. I think either West Central or Stevens would trade Brandon Valley seeds if given the chance.
Wouldn’t matter….
Quote from TopRowRuffRider on February 11, 2025, 5:37 pmQuote from chargergrad on February 11, 2025, 5:10 pmWell I believe Brandon is a much better than the 6th seed.. crazy how some teams can dual a B school schedule and get a better seed when it’s not deserved. Brandon’l wrestles in the toughest conference in the state. That should be figured into the criteria
I think Brandon got the sweetheart seed. They wrestle a beat up Watertown minus Gage and maybe minus Richter. After that, while Aberdeen is a great team, they are more beatable than Sturgis. I think either West Central or Stevens would trade Brandon Valley seeds if given the chance.
Wouldn’t matter….
Quote from TopRowRuffRider on February 13, 2025, 10:01 amQuote from interesting on February 11, 2025, 7:44 pmQuote from TopRowRuffRider on February 11, 2025, 5:37 pmI think Brandon got the sweetheart seed. They wrestle a beat up Watertown minus Gage and maybe minus Richter. After that, while Aberdeen is a great team, they are more beatable than Sturgis. I think either West Central or Stevens would trade Brandon Valley seeds if given the chance.
Don’t worry no matter the seeds, your kid will also get his participation medal.
I don't know what this means. Can you explain?
Quote from interesting on February 11, 2025, 7:44 pmQuote from TopRowRuffRider on February 11, 2025, 5:37 pmI think Brandon got the sweetheart seed. They wrestle a beat up Watertown minus Gage and maybe minus Richter. After that, while Aberdeen is a great team, they are more beatable than Sturgis. I think either West Central or Stevens would trade Brandon Valley seeds if given the chance.
Don’t worry no matter the seeds, your kid will also get his participation medal.
I don't know what this means. Can you explain?
Quote from chargergrad on February 13, 2025, 10:27 amBy the looks of things Watertown has guys hurt. Looks like they had 2 guys default out last weekend and with Gage being out for the year. I would say Brandon got the best seed of the tournament.
By the looks of things Watertown has guys hurt. Looks like they had 2 guys default out last weekend and with Gage being out for the year. I would say Brandon got the best seed of the tournament.
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